Discussions about Music >> Can unblack metal ever be good?
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Thursday 17 March 2011 - 21:04:57

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Enigmatick says :

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InfinityZero says : and just like how most black metalists aren't satanists, I'm sure not all unblack metallers are Christian.


This intrigues me. I thought unblack metal was simply Black Metal with a Christian lyrical focus- but then again, I'm not all that educated on the micro-genre. What is it, if it isn't that?

 
Well, I mean that unblack metallers may sing about Christianity, but they may not necessarily believe it, just like most black metalists aren't really satan-worshippers.

Saturday 26 March 2011 - 04:12:10


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Demogorefest says : only Unblack band that i really like is Immortal Souls, they're alot more melodic than most "unblack" bands, but they're still heavily Christian influenced.
they are kinda melodeth.  they describe their music as "Winter Metal", but i think they sound a lot like CoB.  


Saturday 26 March 2011 - 04:34:45




















Tuesday 03 January 2023 - 03:47:52
Enigmatick says : Let's face it, unless we start mixing in other subgenres, Black Metal is generally a pretty Negative style of music. Across its spectrum, there are various types of Negativity, be it Hatred, Depression, melancholy, Anger, nihilism, whatever- but there's always SOME form of Negativity somewhere in the music

Which leads me to this? Can "unblack metal" (aka Black Metal that is predominantly Christian in its lyrical themes/generally tries to express Christian ideologies in their music) ever really work? I don't really think so, for a few reasons:

a) Because of the aforementioned Negativity, Black Metal with a positive lyrical theme would inevitably lead to an unwanted contrast in the music, making it more difficult to identify with.

b) Seeing as Black Metal is rather satanic in nature, many Black Metal fans would most likely shun Christian BM bands due to their ideologies, leading little room for bands of the sort to thrive and multiply.

c) Not one unblack metal band I've ever heard doesn't suck ass.

There we go. Agree with me, argue me, try to prove me wrong by showing me some good unblack metal, whatever. Get on it!

Yeah, okay.... meaning no disrespect to you, but I've decided it's an obligation to respond, especially to outright stupidity, if for no other reason that you may learn something. Doubtful, but hey.... I'm "OPTIMISTIC" lol. So, I'll be answering your ridiculous twaddle point-by-point: 

A.) Your statement looks good on paper, but falls flat on its face. Notwithstanding the perceived "NEGATIVITY" of Black Metal, there are much worse examples of "unwanted contrast" in the music due to a misplaced injection of (forced and disingenuous) "positivity" leading to an "unwanted contrast in the music, making it more difficult to identify with." To what am I referring specifically? Not Unblack Metal, which (while generally misunderstood on purpose by pseudo-intellectual types in an effort to criticise what they don't (can't, or won't) understand because it would cause them to use reflective skills they've traded for shitposting rights and beer-drinking competitions, which compensate for not being able to string a few disjointed fragments of thoughts together in a coherent manner, to further delude themselves into thinking their ridiculous opinions matter to anyone in the actual Unblack community: a phenomenon of which they know less than zero, corroborated by their self-congratulatory pats-on-the-back they've learned to pass off as "Derr, I'm Brack Metal, Derr...." No, the culprit of which I speak is the poison of Leftist ideology in Black Metal, a poison all-too-often applauded by you macho "Black Metal" types, without realizing how stupid it really is. Let's get something straight: I'm not against anybody's personal political slant. I'm merely using it as a very glaring example of how your simplistic assessment is full of shit. In reality, Black Metal and Unblack Metal share a common religious/spiritual bond, albeit approached from different sides of the table. Leftist ideology in Black Metal, however, has directly (i.e. "demanded") that issues such as "humanitarian aid," and "equality" become integral elements to their sissified vision of so-called "Black Metal." Seems a bit backwards, don't you think? Because if there's one thing the inherently NEGATIVE genre of Black Metal, with all its misanthropic pride, should be about, it's humanitarian aid and philanthropy. Yeah, like that doesn't "inevitably lead to an unwanted contrast in the music, making it more difficult to identify with." No, of course not. Rather, the fault is with Christians, who look upon the impotent figure and false-god of satan as being little more than an immature, feeble-minded construct whose only real utility is measured insofar as any given individual is stupid enough to identify with it. Unblack Metal (by true contrast) understands that all of that stupid posturing by little boys is (in)effectively used as a sheild by which one may molly-coddle their pet delusions, and give themselves an excuse to ignore the actual Truth which they are all too scared, ashamed, and willingly-blinded to consider rationally and objectively. No, but, clearly, it's Unblack Metallers which are the idiots. Do yourselves (and us all) a favor: don't hurt yourselves by trying to out-think us. You'll only make yourselves look dumberer in the process. 

B.) This is a rather myopic statement you have made. Do you know what myopic means? Short-sighted. Can't see too far ahead. I'll tell you why (of course): True, "Brrrack METAAAL!!1" was originally predicated upon ideas traditionally "satanic in nature," as you put it, but a lot of these ideas have become stale, re-hashed, or else just exploited by poseurs for financial gain (as well as to facilitate meaningless sexual intercourse with vapid, incompetent.....humans.....which truly know no better, having traded whatever spark of higher intellect they may have once had for a "fulfilling" philosophy of "living no different than the beasts of the field." I realize that LaVey isn't the final authority of what constitutes "satanism," especially among tr00 Black Metallers, but credit where credit is due: he often spoke more wisdom in his crude, brutal honesty than a thousand esotericists if they put their best minds to work in creating a crossword-puzzle for the newspaper. So, whatever the sentiment lacks in tact, it is nevertheless true in practice: people relish the idea of being nothing more than an animal, a beast of the field. This is rather stupid, wouldn't you think? Considering in the next breath, one of you is likely to claim how "evolved" you all are. Sure. Much more-so than any of us backward Christians, assuredly! Lol! So, you see, it really doesn't matter what Black Metallers "think" of Unblack Metal, nor whether or not they would "shun Christian BM bands" due to their ideologies, lea[v]ing "little room for bands of that sort to thrive and multiply." Why? Simple. Because you all have such an amazing track-record thus far for so ineptly comprehending anything outside of your own anal-intellectual sphere, that these bands would (and have, quite easily) thrive and multiply right under your very noses, if need be. Indeed, the only way you'd realize we were Christians at all is by our directly pointing it out to you out of mercy, because we know you're otherwise (by-and-large) just too dense to be able to come to that conclusion on your own. Now..... lest you mistake my tone for being unnecessarily harsh, no, quite to the contrary, the purpose of this exercise is to cause you to learn something your little "satanic" circles can never teach you, because it's a loss to them: HUMILITY. It's a prerequisite to understanding that you may be wrong, and can be a barometer for comprehending just how wrong you are, in fact. Perhaps it never occurred to you that you could be wrong, and not just wrong per-se, but SO disastrously wrong that you run the risk of bringing embarrassment to yourself and "Der Brack Meatle Comm-Unit-Eye" with every one of these charmingly quippy hot-takes against a religion you purposely hold yourself off from trying to understand a little better, lest you be perceived by your peers as the tiny-PP'd Übermenschen you all claim to be. That`s not a political statement. Rather, it`s a statement meant to cast heaping scorn upon those who actually imbibe Nietzsche's particular brand of insanity, forgetting all the while that Nietzsche himself died alone, insane, and ultimately alienated from the "God" he put so much concerted effort into estranging himself from. Yeah, Friedrich.... Good job. We're all SUPER proud of you. Everybody applaud the useless and sterile intellect! *clap-clap-clap*

C.) No? You've never heard a single Unblack Metal band that "didn't suck ass?" Oh, well.... considering you've probably listened to about 5 at the most (and I'm being generous, it's highly improbable your ADHD would let you listen to more than one or two poor examples before short-circuting to an "I need beerz and pawrnz" factory preset, which requires the gratuitous sight of bobs and vagene to keep you awake. That's not a compliment, it's actually quite sad. What it means is that you're fundamentally incapable of thinking for yourself, ironic, because the genre you're pretending to uphold (and dooing so poorly at it, I might add) has as one of its fundamental views the concept of thinking for oneself; of making one's own decisions. Being the totally "evolved and enlightened" quality Black Metal enthusiasts you no doubt are, has it ever dawned on you just how many stupid satanic Black Metal bands out there actually suck ass? Never occured to you, did it? No, I thought it probably would escape your "True Mayhem" binge-listening sessions, and wanking over Satyricon's latest boring contribution to a tired old whore of an all-but-dead scene. It wouldn't do much good to bring any new Unblack Metal bands to your attention, I'm afraid, as I doubt any can compare to the latest Dimmu Borgir's totally satanic Pop-BM offering. I mean, okay, we can at least throw Watain in there..... and then, directly under the bus. I guess I'd give Deathspell Omega a try (no I wouldn't) if I didn't realize I have to live with myself, and face myself when I look in the mirror in the morning. Don't even get me started on Urfaust. I mean, as a parody band? Genius. But to be taken seriously? Immediately loses points. Like it or don't, the Unblack Metal scene crafts more imaginitive and thought-provoking material using way less resources than your average (major-industry-label signed, oh-so firghtening) "satanic" bands, due mostly to a dedication to the artform, and the Ultimate Reality (G-O-D) behind their music, giving it supernatural fuel to burn brightly for a REAL cause, rather than some stale philosophy of a "Self" which lost all meaning as soon as it ate the last donut. Give me a break. Having said all that, it must be noted that there are, indeed, many underground bands who keep that true original flame alive. The simple truth which you would stop up your ears to avoid hearing, is that we also have several dedicated bands who operate in the same spirit, dedicated to the art; both forms (whether "satanic" or "Christian") making excellent and valid contributions to their respective scenes. 

So let's get away from this immature understanding it used to be "so cool" to impress our little girlfriends with back when we were teenagers, yes? Get your heads out of your asses, and realize there are good bands on both sides, putting forward their respective ideologies and religious message. It's possible to approach eachother with an aire of mutual-respect, without succumbing to the degrading practiceof being a cheerleader for an obsolete idea. Food for thought. I hope you're hungry, because you're going to chew on it whether you initially like it, or not. 

 



Tuesday 03 January 2023 - 19:39:56

I'd argue that you can't define a genre of music based on lyrical content, and because of that, I don't consider unblack metal or white metal or whater a thing in the first place, it's Black Metal, end of story - which brings me to my answer to your question: yes, it can, as it's to be judged on the music, not the lyrics. I personally quite enjoy Horde. 



Thursday 05 January 2023 - 20:43:41
maxuxx says : I'd argue that you can't define a genre of music based on lyrical content, and because of that, I don't consider unblack metal or white metal or whater a thing in the first place, it's Black Metal, end of story - which brings me to my answer to your question: yes, it can, as it's to be judged on the music, not the lyrics. I personally quite enjoy Horde. 

 

Black Metal itself is defined by ideology, at least it was that way in the beginning. In recent years, people have come to define it based on musical elements, and only a handful of "purists" tend to define it on ideological principles. Of course, in the beginning, those who play the music without the ideology would have been called "poseurs" (or "fake"), while those who remained faithful to the ideology (most often satanism or other Left-Hand Path occultism) would be considered "trve." 

I realize that this dichotomy can seem ridiculous, especially to those who hold no ideology and just enjoy the music at face value. However, it must be understood that this is what made Black Metal "Black" in the first place: the genre was defined by adherence to satanic, or otherwise LHP occult principles. Bands who did not hold these views were NOT considered "Black Metal," and in the early days they put a lot of effort into making sure artists who played a similar style but did NOT have the same ideology, would call their music something else. "Viking Metal" or "Pagan Metal" are good examples. Both sound like Black Metal (especially in the early days, see Enslaved's early work, such as "Hordanes Land" the split with Emperor). Since they did not hold a satanic ideology, it was not right for them to call themselves "Black Metal," and they called their music something else, accordingly. 

So it is with "Unblack" or "White Metal." It is my personal opinion that "White Metal" can encompass music outside of just Christianity. It could describe any type of music that uses elements from Black Metal, but that has a Right-Hand Path spiritual ideology, which may be Christian, or Hindu, or New Age, whatever. Perhaps Alcest could be considered "White Metal," and though Varg may foam at the mouth at the idea, "Belus" could be considered White Metal, due to its more "uplifting" spirit. Perhaps that's just subjective, I don't know. Just food for thought. 

The conclusion is that Unblack/White Metal is absolutely defined by ideology, not just the way the music sounds. Black Metal HAS to be defined by satanic/LHP philosophy, otherwise it's not Black Metal at all. Music that is devoid of ideology but plays in a Black Metal style is simply "Extreme Metal." 

This is, at least, a continuation of the definition(s) as it would take its cue from the early days of Black Metal, how it would have been seen back then. Personally, I think it's important to keep the spirit alive, although many today would want to throw away such primitive ideas. I guess it's worth discussing, maybe. 

 



Friday 06 January 2023 - 00:10:39
Michaelnomicon says :
maxuxx says : I'd argue that you can't define a genre of music based on lyrical content, and because of that, I don't consider unblack metal or white metal or whater a thing in the first place, it's Black Metal, end of story - which brings me to my answer to your question: yes, it can, as it's to be judged on the music, not the lyrics. I personally quite enjoy Horde. 
 Black Metal itself is defined by ideology, at least it was that way in the beginning. In recent years, people have come to define it based on musical elements, and only a handful of "purists" tend to define it on ideological principles. Of course, in the beginning, those who play the music without the ideology would have been called "poseurs" (or "fake"), while those who remained faithful to the ideology (most often satanism or other Left-Hand Path occultism) would be considered "trve." I realize that this dichotomy can seem ridiculous, especially to those who hold no ideology and just enjoy the music at face value. However, it must be understood that this is what made Black Metal "Black" in the first place: the genre was defined by adherence to satanic, or otherwise LHP occult principles. Bands who did not hold these views were NOT considered "Black Metal," and in the early days they put a lot of effort into making sure artists who played a similar style but did NOT have the same ideology, would call their music something else. "Viking Metal" or "Pagan Metal" are good examples. Both sound like Black Metal (especially in the early days, see Enslaved's early work, such as "Hordanes Land" the split with Emperor). Since they did not hold a satanic ideology, it was not right for them to call themselves "Black Metal," and they called their music something else, accordingly. So it is with "Unblack" or "White Metal." It is my personal opinion that "White Metal" can encompass music outside of just Christianity. It could describe any type of music that uses elements from Black Metal, but that has a Right-Hand Path spiritual ideology, which may be Christian, or Hindu, or New Age, whatever. Perhaps Alcest could be considered "White Metal," and though Varg may foam at the mouth at the idea, "Belus" could be considered White Metal, due to its more "uplifting" spirit. Perhaps that's just subjective, I don't know. Just food for thought. The conclusion is that Unblack/White Metal is absolutely defined by ideology, not just the way the music sounds. Black Metal HAS to be defined by satanic/LHP philosophy, otherwise it's not Black Metal at all. Music that is devoid of ideology but plays in a Black Metal style is simply "Extreme Metal." This is, at least, a continuation of the definition(s) as it would take its cue from the early days of Black Metal, how it would have been seen back then. Personally, I think it's important to keep the spirit alive, although many today would want to throw away such primitive ideas. I guess it's worth discussing, maybe.  

Some were like that, sure, but nowhere near all of them. There were plenty artists considered Black Metal without said ideaology, in fact I'd argue that the people you're describing were few and far between on a grander scale - and, it's all complete bullshit anyway. If it was purely ideaology, chances are they wouldn't all have played the exact same kind of music. It's sorta like punk. Punk is also very much a style, a mindset and much else, but it's also very much a genre of music, and it always was. So. in short, I call bullshit on the whole "black metal is defined by ideaology" both in the current day and age, but also back then. 

 



Tuesday 25 July 2023 - 14:24:31
Enigmatick says : Let's face it, unless we start mixing in other subgenres, Black Metal is generally a pretty Negative style of music. Across its spectrum, there are various types of Negativity, be it Hatred, Depression, melancholy, Anger, nihilism, whatever- but there's always SOME form of Negativity somewhere in the music

Which leads me to this? Can "unblack metal" (aka Black Metal that is predominantly Christian in its lyrical themes/generally tries to express Christian ideologies in their music) ever really work? I don't really think so, for a few reasons:

a) Because of the aforementioned Negativity, Black Metal with a positive lyrical theme would inevitably lead to an unwanted contrast in the music, making it more difficult to identify with.

b) Seeing as Black Metal is rather satanic in nature, many Black Metal fans would most likely shun Christian BM bands due to their ideologies, leading little room for bands of the sort to thrive and multiply.

c) Not one unblack metal band I've ever heard doesn't suck ass.

There we go. Agree with me, argue me, try to prove me wrong by showing me some good unblack metal, whatever. Get on it!

I've tirelessly searched on numerous occasions for a good unblack metal band, but my quest has been quite elusive. While you may hold a different opinion, in my view, there's only one unblack metal band that stands out as truly excellent: Antestor. I must admit that none of the others I came across managed to impress me.

 



Tuesday 25 July 2023 - 23:40:20
Blazerogahn says :
I've tirelessly searched on numerous occasions for a good unblack metal band, but my quest has been quite elusive. While you may hold a different opinion, in my view, there's only one unblack metal band that stands out as truly excellent: Antestor. I must admit that none of the others I came across managed to impress me. 

That's fair point, but the question posed is whether "unblack" metal CAN ever be good, and my point is that all music is (or should be, at least) judged by how it sounds, not the lyrical content, and as such "unblack" metal doesn't even exist, it's Black Metal just like all other black metal. just with a specific lyrical topic. You'd never have the same question posed about Black Metal with fantasy-inspired lyrics or science-fiction lyrics.