This is a topic I originally started at metal-archives, and it got a really good response, lots of good discussion went on, and guys that played in Warbringer and Lich King actually posted in the thread (!!!!) I even had a mini-debate with the Lich King guy. So, why the Hell not, I figure I'd demo it here. Here's the OP:

No matter who you are or where you came from, people all seem to unanimously agree on one thing: 80s thrash is better than modern thrash, no contest. Sure, the 80s had their share of shitty thrash bands, and modern thrash has shat out a few bands worth one's time, but generally, take any first tier modern thrash band and they won't even compare to any given first or second-tier 80s thrash band. Why is this so? Personally, I have a couple hypotheses.

I. Modern thrash bands have no further vision other than to recreate an aesthetic. One of the main complaints about many a modern thrash band is that they're "too derivative". I mean, look at some of their names: Bonded by Blood, Merciless Death, From Beyond and the like. The artwork is done in the classic "cartoonish" design that was prevalent in 80s from artists like Ed Repka, and everything is made to look like the music was made in the same era as the thrash greats from days long past. The music is more of the same; thrash riffs that sound like Exodus, Slayer or D.R.I. and are occasionally fun to listen to but don't seem to
have the same Anger or passion that those bands had, so it's a much better idea to just listen to Darkness Descends to get your thrash fix. The vision behind these bands is simply "hey, Kreator and/or Exodus rule, let's play music that sounds like that" and Nothing more, and the music shows it. It's Thrash Metal for the sake of Thrash Metal, and that doesn't really make for a good result.

And yet, despite all my bickering, there are two bands I thoroughly enjoy that don't
simply rip off their forefathers, they merely use the influences as a Tool to create fresh, bold thrash: Vektor and Exmortus. Vektor may look like just another wannabe, what with stealing Voivod's logo and all, but Black Future is a progressive, daring monster that has real purpose behind it, and lots of mosh-worthy riffs to boot. Exmortus just throw influences both new and old into a blender to come up with a sound all their own that sneaks up behind you and beats you over the Head with a baseball bat mercilessly, then dazzles you with wonderful solos.
So while the "derivative" rule may show why many modern thrashers can't quite fill the shoes of the bands they idolize, it's not applicable to all the bands coming out nowadays.

II. Thrash died off for a reason. Back when thrash was in its fetal stages, it was something genuinely new- a style of music that commanded a certain brand of aggression never seen before. It was fierce, passionate, but also very restrictive. In order to properly get the message across, thrash has to follow a rather strict set of guidelines, perhaps stricter than any other metal genre. Sure, you have your Voivods and Artillerys that mix it up a little bit, but for the most part, Thrash Metal can't diverge too Far off the path without going into a genre like speed, death or prog metal, or even punk. This, in a nutshell, is why thrash died a rather violent death- it
wasn't because all the thrash bands of the late 80s-early 90s "sold out" and thrash was Infected by groove metal or whatever- it was because the genre eventually had nowhere to go and the fire burned out. Perhaps this death of thrash marks that it is a genre very specific to its time period, that it was only really a viable and relevant genre when it was first spawned, and we no longer have a need for it to continue to be created. Maybe, just maybe, that's why even the best of modern thrash
can't get my blood pumping like Sepultura, Morbid Saint and Sadus do. Maybe the thrashers of today should just let sleeping dogs lie and appreciate the genre for what it was, rather than trying to recreate it.

Now, my fellow forum-goes, this is where you weigh in. What do you think
modern thrash metal lacks? Am I completely wrong about all of this? Is thrash alive and well and are there tons of bands I'm missing? Recommendations are always nice, and replies are nicer.

PS: One band that I completely neglected to mention in this whole post that may
be the only band that brings hope to modern thrash is Razor Fist. Fantastic speed/thrash that blew my face off on first listen and hasn't slowed down since. If there's a band that needs more attention in this irrelevant scene, it's these guys.

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Modern Thrash Metal lacks Modernism.

The 80's were definitely the golden age of Thrash Metal. It caused great impact due to its fury and aggressiveness which the earlier Heavy Metal didn't have. Bands like Slayer or Exodus weren't worried about aesthetics - the main point was not to make music to be inserted in a category but to make the fastest and angriest music alive. And because the earlier Thrash bands kept reiventing the style to play more brutally and frantically each time, there is a passion, an inspiration that we can feel while listening to "Reign in Blood", "The Years of Decay", "Persistence of Time" or "The New Order".

The majority of Modern Thrash bands lazily seem to care only about how "Thrash" their music is and, even if they succeed on that, what they did has been done before with much more fieriness. Nowadays, with so many Metal bands and Means of communication to make their music available, you need to do something more than some thrashy fast tempos and angry shouts if you want your music to catch on. Curiously, even some pioneers of the style seem to have lost the touch. Two obvious examples are Municipal Waste, with each album being pratically a copy of the previous one and Nuclear Assault, releasing that mediocre album after a decade.

I'm not saying, however, that Thrash is dead or that it can't be reinvented. Some bands have done it. It's just uncommon and difficult and many bands who try to do so end up falling into another category like Death, Black, Speed and so on, leaving the bands who play "boring Thrash" to represent the style. In my opinion, these bands should be adding much more modern elements to their music, like Vektor, Strapping Young Lad or Yyrkoon, instead of trying to sound like the old bands - After All, the 80's were in a completely different context than we are nowadays and bands cannot make use of the same obsolete purposes to make music. Thrash Metal was the perfect music for that time, but the Conception of extremity that existed back then is different from the Conception we have now and if Thrash bands want their music to evolve, they must try to Cross new boundaries, not try to insert themselves in that golden age from long ago.

P.S. I don't know Exmortus, but I will definitely give it a try.

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Okay both of you wrote HUGE texts which i only read very quick, so forgive if I say things that have been told already.

Problems with thrash today:

- The atmosphere of the 80ties is present: back then we had youngsters spitting their Anger out. Back then their music was for many youngsters the only ventilation to their Disgust with society and the system. Nowadays we have other ventilation valves ( internet anyone?)

- New thrash isn't new and refreshening anymore, srry to say that. Often they copy and paste from the olden golds (Fueled By Fire )

- Inability to reach a certain level of popularity like Slayer, Metallica,... did?

- Modern music scene doesn't ask for thrash bands, like back then the Thrash bands were an explosion in music land that caused a complete change in metal. DM and Bm were formed by the rise of Thrash. The metal scene in the eigties evolved quite fast compared to the metal scene the last decade. Metal didn't change that dramatically last decade, like metal did in the 80ties

That was basically the consensus among most- that modern thrash was essentially a Dead End and unless more bands spiced it up a bit it would remain so. The rebuttal from a lot of the band members, people who actually play for bigger-name modern thrash bands (and would therefore have a very valuable opinion on the topic), was that just because it's been done before, doesn't mean it can't be done again. Here, I'll quote the actual response for a better understanding:





Basically, what the response from the bands was that they're just making the music they love and want to hear, which brings a whole other topic to mind, that being the progression of art vs. entertainment. Does the music have to be fresh and new to keep thrash alive or is it enough for a band to put on a Killer live show, for example?

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So...you're saying music is no longer a good way to let out Anger just because we now have the internet?





First of all, metal doesn't have to be popular to be good, and definitely doesn't have to in order to be relevant, and not only that, the resurgence of thrash is still in its foetal stages. You have to remember, the popularity of bands like Metallica and Slayer was YEARS in the making. It'll come, and if one can call bands like Lamb Of God thrash, then arguably that popularity already has.

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You misunderstood my statement about anger. Today Anger is still ventilated in music but youngsters have today more opportunities and ways to show they are miscontent about something like I stated the internet, but that's not the only one. In the 80ties Internet wasn't public yet, youngsters did have access to such fluent communication as today. Music prove to be a main source of identification when it came to opinion of dislike or approval (this is also still the case today, see above).

Since when is Lamb Of God thrash?

Okay, I manage to understand that...but how is that a Negative for modern thrash? Are you saying it's not as "angry" as classic thrash because there's more opportunities for kids to vent their Anger elsewhere?

And I know, Lamb Of God isn't really thrash- I more said that because, well, their close enough to it that I've seen people argue that they are thrash, and while they're not part of the modern thrash movement by a long shot, their case shows that there's still potential for thrash bands nowadays to reach such levels of popularity.

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If you are a false, don't entry, or you'll be burned and died!

I wouldn't call it Negative, rather something that changes perception of modern thrash.

Perhaps we should wait and see how the new thrash movement evolves, perhaps there are some surprises and rising stars still to come.

I think i finally found out the answer...
Music is essentially at it's Core, an art; and art is often derived from culture. 21st century thrash (and by thrash i'm referring to the more "legit" thrash bands like Municipal Waste, Warbringer, etc. rather than the more "fringe" acts like Lamb Of God, Shadows Fall, etc.) is in no way at all different than their 1980's progenitors except for the Fact that they weren't around 25 years ago. The formula is hardly changed at all except for the passage of time, and with it, the cultural effects it's had on the genre itself. 

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Shit yeah!... Shit no, No One likes shit!

Hmmmm... took the time but your answer does make alot of sense